Will the burden to make restitution for Black Americans ever be addressed, or is it too late for a reparations movement to finally happen? That question is at the center of the provocative documentary The Big Payback, which focuses especially on a groundbreaking reparations bill in Evanston, Illinois, to address housing discrimination. The film also looks at the national debate to redress slavery and ingrained racism, and the effort to get reparations bill H.R. 40 passed since being introduced by U.S. Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee in 2019.
The film’s co-director Erika Alexander has had a long successful career as an actress, garnering two NAACP Image Awards as a performer in the series Living Single, and appearing in so many great roles since. She is also a creator, producer (including for the acclaimed doc John Lewis: Good Trouble), activist, and co-founder of an innovative production company—to say she wears a lot of hats wouldn’t do all her work justice.
For The Big Payback, Alexander partnered up with award-winning docmaker and educator Whitney Dow, whose two decades of work (including POV’s Two Towns of Jasper and Independent Lens‘ When the Drum Is Beating) has focused on race and identity. Their collaboration evolved from their Big Payback podcast series, which they talk more about below. They also touch on how viewers can use the doc as a discussion tool, and what a future with reparations could look like.
Evolving from Podcast to a Documentary
Erika: The journey from podcast to film was wild. Both are balancing acts, done standing on one leg, while moving on a fast train.
[Making] the documentary was brutal, because it’s real life, and life must be captured “or else”—COVID-19 be damned! Whitney was our relentless captain. Along with our Chicago team, all MVP’s, braving everything, including sickness and death, to get the filming done.
The podcast was a “mic-riot” of impossible interviews from social justice titans, woven with our personal stories, to create an entertaining show. Our small team cobbled our different styles together to make one unique voice. Full disclosure, we had a few “bumps” in the road getting to know each other, but with only five weeks before our first episode debuted, for Black History Month, on the Black Effect Podcast Network—we pressed on. And we had to do everything all at once! We’re proud of the results. The Big Payback podcast is an experimental mash-up of interviews, stitched together with gum, moxie, and prayer, to make an unusual form of educational, political, irreverent entertainment! It’s Schoolhouse Rock meets—the poor version of—NPR’s Radiolab!
Whitney and I learned we had a long way to go in personal growth to meld together as creators from two different backgrounds. But we and our team rallied. So [we] could use our experiences, differences, and creative powers to ‘connect’ The Big Payback duo, and successfully launch on two different formats, for a diverse, multigenerational audience. And we did it, on a budget, in record time, during a global plague, by any means necessary.
Erika Alexander and Whitney Dow
Whitney: The podcast was way out of my comfort zone. As a director, I am used to having the luxury of being behind the scenes and using other people’s voices as a proxy for my own, and I felt very exposed by the form. Erika was, of course, very comfortable in the environment, and taught me, among other things, that if you breathe while speaking, it keeps people from thinking you’re being strangled during the recording.
Coming Together to Work on The Big Payback
Erika: Joy Reid, journalist and mutual friend, introduced us. We were both thinking about working on a reparations documentary. Joy had the brilliant idea [for us] to do it together. Frankly, I’m surprised we both survived the affair, but the upside was we sure saved on toilet tissue, whiskey, and dish soap! 😉
Whitney: Joy brought us together, and we quickly bonded over our mutual belief that the divide between Black and white Americans, and the remediated crime of slavery and systemic racism forms the foundation of many of the challenges facing our country today.
Why the Evanston Story of Reparations?
Whitney: Robin [Rue Simmons’] story was so powerful because she was making history in real time.
Erika: What appealed to us was a chance to watch Robin, a Rosa Parks-type figure, make history in front of our eyes…’Nuff said.
What Should or Could Reparations in the Future Look Like?
Erika: The subject is complex and made more difficult by America’s failure to address it after reconstruction was destroyed. But it’s gonna be a big buffet created by many chefs. Let’s just hope the final meal is good and won’t cause too much indigestion!
How Did Their Views on Reparations Evolve Since Starting on The Big Payback
Erika: Directing this film gave me a first-rate education from so many phenomenal people pro and con. So my views have “evolved.” I was always for reparations, but now I know why it must happen now.
Whitney: Coming in I thought the main challenge to reparations was going to bring white Americans into the reparations discussion. And while that challenge still remains, I had no idea how complex and fractured the debate was within the Black community.
What Is White People’s Responsibility?
Whitney: As a white person I don’t think it is my place to say what reparations should look like, or who should get it; these are complicated questions and there is a robust debate in the Black community about just what reparations looks like. I believe that my responsibility, and the responsibility of all white Americans, is to advocate for processes that help Americans grapple honestly with their country’s past, and develop programs that help make amends for the injustice endured by generations of Black Americans.
On a Black-White Partnership Producing a Film About Racism
Whitney: The most important lesson I learned making Two Towns of Jasper with Marco [Williams] was when you are working in a cross-race directing partnership, you cannot make something truly honest without ceding control. Marco and I have known each other since we were 14 and were very close before we ever worked together, so it was extremely destabilizing to realize that there were certain things—because of our lived experiences—that we could never understand about each other, and, in fact, at times made it impossible for us to agree on how to accurately represent a reality we had experienced together.
I learned that having shared goals was more important than having shared motivations, that there are some divides that simply cannot be crossed no matter how much you want to, and at times you just have to put that aside and do the work.
How to Get the Conversation Flowing About Reparations After Watching The Big Payback
Erika: I’d ask viewers:
- Do you think the U.S. owes a debt to African Americans’ descendants for slavery, for Jim Crow, and systematic racism still residing in government, corporations, and institutions?
- Did you know what reparations was before this film?
- What does reparations mean to you?
- Do you feel a moral obligation to help get reparations done?
- How can you help support a reparations initiative in your city/state? Will you help reparations become a reality now?
We can come together to talk about reparations by debating the facts, not feelings. We can acknowledge the restorative role reparations has played in America with other groups. We can educate ourselves about the systemic harm to communities of color and poor people of all colors—and the link to current barriers—that slavery and white superiority created.
This film can help by showing the journey of a real person, Robin Rue Simmons, in real time, who made it happen in her city and created a blueprint to build on.
Updates on the Reparations Bill
Erika: H.R. 40 is stalled from moving to the Senate for a vote, but on December 3rd in Evanston, at Robin Rue Simmons’ First Repair National Reparations Summit, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee [featured in the film] called for President Biden to sign an executive order for H.R. 40. Biden has yet to respond.
Where to Learn More
Erika and Whitney suggest those interested in learning more check out their website ReparationsBigPayback.com and also Robin Rue Simmons’ organization FirstRepair. Both places have many resources, including a screening guide and a reparations toolkit.