Jace Lacob: I’m Jace Lacob, and you’re listening to MASTERPIECE Studio.

After losing her lover, her daughter, and her job, the young Fantine has finally died — after learning that her savior, Monsieur le Maire, is in fact the fugitive convict, Jean Valjean. It’s a gruesome death for a character whose life was full of extremes. From a beautiful lakeside romance to the violence of the urban sex trade, Fantine has seen the bright promise of her young life extinguished by the harsh realities of mid-19th century France.

CLIP

Fantine: You see this man here? You see this monster here that you call Monsieur le Maire? It’s all his fault! He’s supposed to be so good, what did he do? He threw me out on the street and you know why? Because I tried to care for my little girl. Monster of a Mayor!

Jace: Actor Lily Collins turned to the original novel’s text as a source for character development. And she was thrilled to find that Andrew Davies’ script for Les Misérables gave the usually narrowly-defined Fantine room to grow, and even thrive, in this recent adaptation.

Lily Collins: It was a welcome to me having known where she ends up to be able to have as much fun at the beginning….you know where things are headed and it makes you want for her the best more than you ever have because you know that things are just gonna get awful quite soon.

Jace: Collins takes us inside her stunning transformation and says goodbye to Fantine, while looking ahead to her busy calendar.

And we are joined this week by Les Misérables star Lily Collins. Welcome.

Lily: Thank you for having me.

Jace: Fantine is introduced in Andrew Davies’ script with the following description: ‘Fantine is the youngest treated as a pet by the others. She’s fair and ravishingly pretty.’ I love that the Fantine we see in the first episode is happy and entirely innocent. What did you make of this description of her?

Lily: I thought it was really fascinating being able to show a side of Fantine that we don’t really normally get to see in the previous film adaptation as well as the musical because normally we hear about those days when Fantine was happy and had just moved to Paris and you know had friends and she got to fall in love. We only hear that really in a song lyric or a couple song lyrics. And this time we actually get a whole episode to see her come and be alive and fall in love and have her child. So for me it was really fun to get to explore the young naive more innocent just full of life and love Fantine that I know I would have loved to have seen more of before. So the fact that Andrew got to detail her in such a way was really fun to get to explore.

Jace: I mean, does having that backstory make what’s coming for Fantine even more wrenching for viewers? Does it engender further sympathy for her by showing how she started out?

Lily: Yeah I think it’s pivotal so that you have the exact opposite of what she ends up to really start her out as happy and youthful and fun and full of life. Because at the end of the story as you know she is on her deathbed and looks completely different. And for me what was so strange about filming is that we started at the end and worked our way backwards because we started filming in winter so my second day of filming was on my deathbed and then I got to come back to life and and reintroduce myself to the young Fantine which was really great because once I reached the death scene and you know worked my way through all of her prostitution scenes and her really kind of grappling at life, I knew where she ended up so I got to really amp up the beginning of the story to the best of my ability to make it even more loving, even more youthful and fun and innocent and naive because that way I had a really great bookend to kind of be opposite to the end. And I think that an audience is is more able to empathize with her at the end when they’ve actually seen where she came from.

Jace: What sort of preparation did you do in terms of research? Did you turn to the Victor Hugo novel?

Lily: I did. Tom was quite adamant that for obvious reasons this is based on the Victor Hugo novel it’s not a musical version it’s not based on what the movie did. It really was its own entity. And Andrew obviously references so much of the novel in just the backstory when you’re reading the script not even on the lines but really just the setting and the way his descriptions as you read before about Fantine, he really goes back to the novel, so that was pivotal to go back and reference that. It was very much about analyzing the context and the text from the original novel and just inserting bits of yourself within the character especially for Fantine seeing as though we haven’t seen that much of her youthful side before. And so Tom just wanted to know what that was like for me. And so we did a lot of speaking about women at that time. And you know a young grisette versus a you know a young prostitute and how that could kind of evolve and a young mother, you know that during this time in Paris and what that would look like. So just using using the surroundings to kind of influence how Fantine would act.

Jace: Did Anne Hathaway offer you advice?

Lily It wasn’t like Anne Hathaway came up to me and offered me advice. I saw her at an event and I just I thought it was funny that I saw her and I had just played her and I said, ‘I’m playing Fantine, and hi how are you?’ She offered me really great advice, actually, coming from you know me bringing it up to her. And it was just, ‘Make sure that you don’t lose yourself in this character, because it is one that requires all of yourself.’ Like I said before, and it would be easy for it to become all consuming and just to be aware of that. And that was something that I knew going into it. But it was nice to have someone who’s been in the trenches reiterate that and remind me that I’m not crazy for thinking it is overwhelming. But it was great it was a lovely moment. And I was very thankful for that.

Jace: Fantine meets Felix, played by Johnny Flynn, over a drink and the scene becomes a swirl of activity as Fantine and her friends dance with these very well-heeled gentlemen.

CLIP

Felix: No, no, no I’m afraid we cannot permit you to dance without partners.

Favorite: Thought you’d never ask, monsieur.

Felix: May I ask your name, mademoiselle?

Fantine: Fantine, monsieur.

Felix: Fantine.

Jace: What was it like getting to play the scene, which is so at odds with how we think of Fantine traditionally?

Lily: That scene was so beautiful. I remember all of us being there and looking at I mean first of all the production design on this is just insanely beautiful and it was a welcome to me because I had shot all of my you know my death and my struggle maybe two months prior, went back to Los Angeles for a month, and came back for the summer portion. And this was one of the first things I shot and it was the first time for me also that I got to be around other people you know that were Fantine’s friends so that our whole gang spent so much time together in Brussels we had such a great time when we were so close knit that this was just it felt like another like a Friday night you know hanging out with friends, which it really was for Fantine. But it felt really nice to just let go and let loose and have a fun time because it was one of the moments the only moments that you see Fantine able to do that and Fantine was very much the baby of the group in terms of her girlfriends that were grisettes with her. She’s the younger one she’s more naive. And they see her as her little their little pet in the most endearing sense. So this was one of the most grownup nights she’s had. She gets to go out and have drinks and lo and behold meet some guys and obviously you know the rest is history and goes downhill from there really. But it was a welcome to me having known where she ends up to be able to have as much fun at the beginning. You know where things are headed and it makes you want for her the best more than you ever have because you know that things are just going to get awful quite soon.

Jace: Fantine falls head over heels in love with Felix. Their seduction scene in the woods under the green canopy of the trees is exquisite to watch.

CLIP

Felix: I wonder if you know how I’m suffering? Are you going to be merciful, Fantine? Will you take pity on me?

Fantine: I don’t want you to be sad.

Felix Then…?

Fantine: You promise you’ll be good to me, Felix?

Fantine: On my life.

Jace: What was it like shooting the sequence?

Lily: It was…I mean it was beautiful. Again, where we got to shoot was just a joy. Brussels and outside of Belgium and France there were so many amazing locations. Props to Johnny Flynn for knowing how to row that canoe really well. It felt very natural. Johnny is such a giving actor. He’s perfect in this role. I feel he plays that fine line between you know, a wooing, very dapper young man and also someone that you know is just sleazy and saying what he wants to get her. And you know, a poet in every sense, and I felt like that was the first moment for Fantine that she ever really falls for someone. And it’s the first time she gives herself to anyone and you can tell her you can tell she’s super hesitant but the second he starts playing into his emotions and saying you know I don’t want to suffer. Do you want me to suffer? He really knows how to get her. It’s heartbreakingly beautiful. And at the same time you really you go oh can you fault her though? Because she can’t see that he’s tricking her. And he’s really good at what he does. He’s very alluring and we don’t even know if that’s what he’s doing yet. So it’s easy to see why she falls for him. But yeah, I mean it was, it was summer on the bank of a beautiful lake, you know, with a blanket, and it just all of it felt very very realistic and quite fairytale-like.

Jace: And sort of innocent, like her naivité is completely showing it that scene.

Lily: She has a guy canoeing her to this little nook with a blanket and reciting poetry and saying how beautiful she is. I mean, that’s something that every girl would want! Especially Fantine, who has never had any attention like this. So like, it really is easy to see why she fell for him, and even sadder when he leaves her.

Jace: I mean, do you think that Fantine truly loves Felix?

Lily: I do. I think Fantine believes in love, and loves the feeling of love. And she’s always, she’s ever hopeful. And I think she sees the best in people, you know, even when she’s speaking to the grisettes in the factory afterwards when one of her friends is telling her, ‘You know, things like this don’t happen for us and they’re just going to use us,’ and Fantine’s just so optimistic saying, ‘Maybe it’s not always like that, and it might not be like that for me.’ And I think it’s that hopeful, optimistic nature of her that is what continues on throughout the story even after she dies. She’s kind of this beacon of light and of hope and makes it even sadder that that’s her disposition. But it’s I think it was really genuine for her.

Jace: I mean, getting a letter at a banquet might be the 19th century equivalent of getting ghosted.

Lily: Yeah, it’s completely getting ghosted. Yeah.

Jace: I mean how much of Felix’s cavalier action sort of destroys Fantine? Is this sort of the moment where there’s no turning back?

Lily: I think you know she has a daughter now and Felix had gotten her her apartment. Felix had done his, what he thought duty in keeping her healthy, happy and protected and fed and warm. But she can’t take care of herself in the way that he had, and he doesn’t leave her anything to do so. So once she realizes that he’s gone, in that moment her whole world, I think, comes crashing down and she has this realization of, ‘OK, I can’t I can’t just sit and wallow because I can’t keep my house, I can’t keep my daughter fed. I have to do something.’ And in that moment, at the end of episode one, really, is this kind of light bulb moment where she has to figure out what next. And there is nothing for her there anymore. And I also think she probably can’t exist within that space and not think of him. You know, she has to move on in some way, so she is forced to have to leave and when she meets the Thenardiers, and sees a way out for the moment of, ‘OK, well at least my daughter can be protected and well fed and cared for and I can go and figure out my next step.’ But I do think that that letter seals the deal of, ‘My world’s coming crashing down, and what can I do?’

Jace: Fantine lies to Valjean about not having a daughter.

CLIP

Valjean: So what are your family circumstances?

Fantine: I am alone in the world, sir.

Madame Victurnien: No husband?

Fantine: No.

Madame Victurnien: No lover? No children?

Fantine: As I said sir, I’m…I’m alone in the world.

Valjean: It’s very important to me and to you, Fantine, that you’re completely honest with me.

Jace: Why doesn’t she admit to Valjean that she’s a mother. What holds her back?

Lily: Well I think she assumed he would judge her and not want to hire her and she couldn’t risk that. So she felt that it was necessary to just present who she was there. I mean she had left her daughter so she was technically alone there. But I don’t think she wanted the judgment and unfortunately if she had just told him he may have actually shown pity and still hired her but she didn’t want to risk anything and at this point this was really her only option. So she was willing to kind of forgo telling the truth for that.

Jace: What was it like working with Dominic West?

Lily: Dominic’s awesome! He’s amazing he’s so intense when he needs to be and so fun when the cameras aren’t rolling. But he’s a wonderful scene partner. He’s so brilliant in this role and just really a joy to kind of be in the moment with especially in scenes you know also with David and that pinnacle scene where she’s begging for her life on the street in the snow to have two powerful acting you know houses right across from you. So 110 percent in that moment with you is so necessary. You know and then they yell cut and we’re laughing. It’s so great it’s so great to have people that can do both and that are really in the moment with you.

Jace: Fantine finishes her work and uses some leftover beads to make a little bird which reminded me of a caged bird that she has in her flat. What does the bird represent to you?

Lily: To me I think it’s freedom. The idea that we can all feel caged in our own lives in one way or another. But the second that you allow yourself to to be free even if it’s just for a little while before you come back home or it is just to set yourself free from an idea or a place that you are in your life, how that can be so liberating for one’s spirit and also physically if you free yourself from something and I think this you know was to be given to cause that just is a little emblem of freedom and to always spread your wings and always kind of rise above what it is that you’re thrown in life. So it was very sad when she doesn’t actually get to give it to her. I know.

Jace The little bird ends up being Fantine’s undoing as Madame Victurnien catches her with it and ends up following her to the letter writer. Is there a sense that had Pere Madeleine been at his desk that Fantine may have escaped this fate? She keeps looking to the empty desk.

Lily I think he would have granted more of a lenience towards Fantine as opposed to Madame Victurnien who really always had it out for her. I think she would have used anything to get her out because she really sensed that she was lying which of course she was. But again all for good reason and you know her morals were there. But I think Pere Madeleine felt really betrayed when he finds out Fantine had lied and I think he in his heart would still wanted to keep her there but he had to set a precedent for the other women. And so I think she was looking out for him as a guardian of sorts and when he wasn’t there it gave her even more of a reason to hold that grudge and resentment towards him which you see in that scene on the street when when he approaches her and she just completely you know kind of just is disgusted by him and calls him out in front of everyone but he redeems himself by by providing you know a bed for her and promised to go see Cossette. But I think that those moments when she’s looking for him and he’s not there are very poignant because it’s as if he abandoned her and that’s what he she sees him as a someone who abandoned her who at the end does redeem himself.

Jace: Before this next question, a brief word from our sponsors…

Jace: Is so much of what happens to poor Fantine down to bad luck or being in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Lily: I think that she was easily manipulated and duped by this man. And I don’t know if it’s a sense of necessarily bad luck, or a wrong place at wrong time. I think it’s her disposition was taken advantage of by multiple people, whether that’s Felix or the Thenardiers, and it set her off on a really negative trajectory. And she was so fearful to not be able to take care of Cosette, that I think she projected how she felt other people would react if she had told the truth. Like, if she had told Pere Madeleine that she had a daughter, things probably would have been different. He may not have hired her or he may have. But if he didn’t hire her, she probably would have had to go find somewhere else. But if he had, then there would have been no reason to fire her for the little bird, because they would have known that she had a daughter. And I think it was, it’s a series of unfortunate events that were done to a very fortunate, loving person, which sometimes in life bad things happen to good people, and you can’t really figure out why. The good news is that she remained ever hopeful and ever kind of persistent in her love of Cosette, and trying to provide for her that her overall essence and that sense of loyalty and light and love is what Jean Valjean continues on to the end of the story. So if it weren’t for her love and positivity and light, I don’t think he would have made it through to the end. And if that’s all that if that’s what she leaves this Earth, when she leaves the Earth then that I guess is something positive from something negative. You know?

Jace: We come now to the most horrific scene in the entire show, where Fantine has her head shaved and her teeth ripped out by the hair and teeth dealer played by Ron Cook.

CLIP

Hair and Teeth Dealer: Are you selling, dear?

Fantine: How much?

Hair and Teeth Dealer Ten francs.

Fantine: Is that all?

Hair and Teeth Dealer That’s the top rate, you won’t get more anywhere. But if you was thinking of parting with those lovely white teeth, now…just the two front ones. I could give you two Napoleons for that. Forty francs. Fifty altogether. Just five minutes work. What do you say?

Lily: How brilliant is Ron Cook?

Jace: Amazing.

Lily When he came out and did that, I really was quite mesmerized. I was like, ‘I get why she approached him and was willing to do it.’ Yeah.

Jace: It’s amazing. I mean the scene itself. His mother holds you down. It plays out like something out of a horror film. What was it like shooting this very traumatic sequence?

Lily: Well it was interesting talking to Tom about this sequence, because it’s been portrayed many different ways in other productions and he was very adamant that if she cries at all in this scene it will be from the pain of it happening, not of her necessarily doing it, because we both agreed she’s not vain. So it’s not that she’s crying that she has to have her hair cut or that she has to have her teeth pulled out because that was a choice and her priority is Cosette. So when she makes a decision she might be fearful but she’s not upset that she’s losing her looks. The the pain comes from the sheer agony of these you know of him chopping her hair so so harshly that it catches her scalp or obviously you know the teeth pulling is theirs. She didn’t have any of that anesthetic like there’s there’s no drugs involved to make her not feel anything. So this is just pure pain. And that was where the horror came from of how brutal and how raw he was going to then approach that moment. Ron Cook was going to do that or the teeth and hair puller. And at this point it’s the last thing she feels before prostitution that she can do. And we were in a very small environment. And I remember the crew all feeling extremely grossed out by it as well. Sound was everything because you’re really relying on my eyes and the noises and obviously the brilliant acting by Ron and his mother. But it was just one of those moments when you thought oh people are probably not going to like to watch this because I know a lot of people that hate the dentist that they’re really not fans of getting their teeth cleaned let alone seeing that. But it was it was necessary. And I think it’s also necessary that she doesn’t see herself until she gets back home for the first time. But yeah, it was dark.

Jace: When we come in to the scene where she retaliates against an awful would be punter and assaults him which leads to her being dragged viciously through the streets by Javert and thrown in front of Valjean.

Lily: That was real!

Jace: I mean it it looks painful and it looks incredibly cold.

Lily: Oh yes. So it was in the minuses I think it was about minus 13 or minus 15 that night it had just been I didn’t know it could rain and snow at the same time but apparently it can. It had rained and it had really snowed and it was freezing and I’m wearing limited clothing. And so we shot all exteriors in this amazing amazing ancient little city little town called Limbourg. And the cobblestone streets all of that was real which is so beautiful when you’re walking down you know on a sunny day. But when you’re being dragged through the streets by someone who is your jailer or you’re flailing and jumping on someone I mean I practiced the jumping with a stunt person. But then it really was me jumping and knocking him down and just pawing at his face. I mean he the actor wanted me he said, Go for it. Well you don’t want to tell me to go for because I really will go for it because they wanted to animalistic and just screaming and guttural because this is the last chance she has to really fight back and it shows that she’s still she still has a sense of herself. I mean she’s a shell of what she was. But she’s also not willing for someone to treat her that way and it’s her last almost her last exertion because she’s already really sick at that point. And so we did that jumping on him and then I’m literally picked up and dragged by my stomach away. And then David and I spoke about the fact that it was a harsh scene and he was going to be gripping me hard and I was going to be pulling away. But there’s the there’s a moment when I’m being held back by the guards and I jump at his feet and I’m begging and I’m begging and he pulls me and he kind of shoves me off and we did it a couple of times in the rehearsal. But when you get into the moment and you know it’s it’s do or die and you’re you’ve got lots of endorphins and you know he’s playing who he’s playing and I’m playing who I’m playing. Sometimes things get amped up and I hear he shoved me but we’re on cobblestones and so my foot got caught on one of the cobblestones and it was so slippery from the snow and the rain that I literally flew across the cobblestone and landed straight on my hip bone. And they used the shot because it was a mid shot so you can see it’s me. Doesn’t look like a stunt person but it’s me flailing getting flung and you just heard this crack and nobody knew that nobody knew that it hurt but I screamed out loud as she would have and I just thought don’t stop. Like this is the must keep going. If Fantine was in pain you’re in pain. What good is going to be to stop. So we just kept rolling and I was crying and I was like coughing and everything about it hurt and hurt and hurt. At least in my opinion it’s like if when I had that I went OK I went all and I did justice to Fantine’s scene because that was one of my most anticipated anxiety ridden scenes, for sure.

Jace: Fantine’s death scene is one of the most iconic in history and you completely transform yourself into this poor woman sweaty toothless feverish. Your face is just this mess of misery and anguish the choking sounds that you made stuck with me so long after I watched this.

CLIP

Fantine: You promised…to bring my little girl from Montfermeil with you Monsieur Le Maire…

Javert: There’s not Monsieur Le Maire here. He hasn’t been to Montfermeil to fetch your little girl. He’s been confessing to his crimes in court. And now he’s going back to the prison hulks where he belongs.

Valjean: You killed that woman.

Jace: How grueling was it to shoot this death?

Lily: Day two! Imagine that. ‘Welcome to set!’ Day two was really interesting actually because it was freezing. Everyone was just bundled up they have me on this deathbed which they very nicely the prop department had put in a electric blanket on the the bottom because I was going to be lying in it all day. And at first I thought well I don’t know if I really – yes I want it but I don’t know if I really really want to because I’m I want to be suffering and cold. The longer I stayed on that bed it became so hot that I just started sweating and then I was cold and then I thought well now I’m going to get sick. And I thought well that’s perfect. So as I was shivering I was profusely sweating the sweat was me like sweating. Then they added spray and then I was so delirious from the whole day of breathing and lack of breathing and what that does to you as a person. I mean when you mess up your breathing you become light headed and all of this stuff and I had just thought before I went into this like how can I make the noise disturbing what can I do. And I started just kind of choking. And Tom was like Right. Well it makes sense because you’re choking on your blood and you can’t really speak and so it’s these noises. And I remember at one point Dominic looked to me he’s like Oh I like that I think I might use after my death. Where did that come from. I was like I don’t know. I just thought it might be it might be helpful. So that just all kind of came together on the day. But it was interesting that a hot blanket could end up actually making me freezing and sweaty which then turned into this you know great amalgamation of getting sick. I mean I did kind of get sick afterwards but I thought well at least I’ve died already.

Jace: But this production was really ultimately a test of endurance for you. Physical transformation, a psychologically grueling portrayal, freezing temperatures, flying across cobblestones. When did you come out the other side with a better sense of what you yourself can endure?

Lily: Yes definitely. It felt daunting to look at the script even though I’m in only three episodes. It still was daunting to look at all the things Fantine goes through in such a relatively short period on screen. And there were moments you know like I said that were one eighth of a page that had no dialogue but were so powerful and then there were scenes that were monologues that were so powerful and so many nuanced moments that Tom you know I remember when I was on the phone to Tom I was in sunny, sunny L.A. and Tom said. So that scene where you’re being dragged through the streets. You know I know it’s written that it’s in the jailhouse but I thought how much more humiliating and amazing would it be if you were dragged through the snow on the street outside. And I remember thinking amazing for who? The viewer or me? And I thought you know what. Yes yes yes it’s going to be amazing Tom and I just thought don’t think about the actual doing of it because the end result will be so amazing. And again it just aided in the performance so much. But I really I really went through a lot of external influences in order to make this happen that I didn’t necessarily know I could withstand. It was interesting to me to kind of see what I was capable of and that’s a huge testament though to Tom and our director and the other actors because as long as you’re surrounded by people that you trust and that you know are taking you in the right direction you’re kind of willing to put up with whatever it is to get the job done. And when I finish I was so happy to to have a break. And luckily I finished in the summer period when she was happy. That was a really nice sendoff. You know I was glad to get the bad stuff done in the winter and then happy to come back in the summer and then take a well needed little kind of beach vacation and come back free and then watch it months later and go, Wow we did that. Oh that looks sad. It was nice to have a little bit of a break from it.

Jace: You’re starring as Edith Tolkien the wife of Lord of the Rings novelist J.R.R. Tolkien played by Nicholas Hoult in the biopic Tolkien. What can you tell us about that project?

Lily: Well I’m so excited actually comes out in a couple of months now. That was also an amazing experience to be a part of because I grew up loving Lord of the Rings didn’t know much about Tolkien himself though so to be able to play the woman that inspired the Elven Queen and a lot of the story points of Lord Of The Rings and The Hobbit was really for lack of better words magical. I got to shoot in Liverpool I’ve been a huge fan of Nick’s for a long time. I’ve known him socially and I think he’s wonderful and working with Domé as our director. He’s such a visual genius. The way that he wanted to show the war sequences and the colours of war as well as inserting little bits of the imagery that you associate with The Hobbit into this real life story was really fascinating to me but it was so interesting to get to know the story behind the story of a great one of the most renowned novelists of the world really.

Jace: And then what’s next for you now?

Lily: I also did a film called Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil and Vile about Ted Bundy. It’s a film that sparks a lot of conversation which I think is important and to have been able to play a woman who is still alive today and to have met her was fascinating and just such an amazing experience just as a human being from one woman to another woman and Les Mis I feel like last year was an interesting year. Back to back work which I’m very grateful for and then they all seemed to be coming out the exact reverse of when they were shot Les Mis was last and Les Mis came out first so I’m grateful to be able to be talking about all the stuff that I did last year.

Jace: Lily Collins, thank you so much

Lily: Thank you for having me.

Jace: Andrew Davies is one the UK’s most prolific screenwriters, adapting dozens of classic titles since the very beginning of MASTERPIECE. When he decided to pen a new adaptation of Victor Hugo’s classic novel, Les Misérables, it was only right that it find a home here on MASTERPIECE.

Andrew Davies:  I’m that age where I you know I never had to fight in a war. I lived through a period of peace and prosperity, really. And it’s interesting that now in my country young people can’t afford to buy a house. It’s very upsetting.

Jace: Davies joins us to explore the story still to come on Les Misérables, and to tease his thrilling new adaptation of Jane Austen’s unfinished novel, Sanditon, set to premiere on MASTERPIECE in 2020. That’s next week on the podcast, on Sunday, May 5.

MASTERPIECE Studio is hosted by me, Jace Lacob and produced by Nick Andersen. Elisheba Ittoop is our editor. Susanne Simpson is our executive producer. The executive producer of MASTERPIECE is Rebecca Eaton.