This script has been lightly edited for clarity

 

Jace Lacob: I’m Jace Lacob, and you’re listening to MASTERPIECE Studio.

There’s something frustratingly lovable about Tom Jones, the titular hero of Henry Fielding’s coming-of-age novel. He’s innocent, naïve, and far too handsome for his own good, something that often gets Tom into trouble over the course of this four-part miniseries.  

 

CLIP

Jenny: Ah, there’s a girl. Course there is.

Tom: Well, there was. She’s being married this very morning.

Jenny: Let me guess, she was too good for you?

Tom: Exactly so.

Jenny: Ah, but she had all your heart?

Tom: She did.

Jenny: What about the rest of you?

 

Like any 20-year-old, Tom makes his fair share of mistakes. But he wants to do the right thing. 

 

 CLIP

Lady Bellaston: Give me her letter.

Tom: I can’t do that

Lady Bellaston: My reputation, my honor, my peace of mind! Give me her letter!

Tom: The moment I give you Miss Western’s letter I proved myself to be the opposite of a gentleman. And you can no longer ever be sure your own secrets are safe with me.

Lady Bellaston: So there is a brain in that pretty little head after all. Who would’ve thought it?

 

As Tom fumbles through adolescence and navigates the seedy underbelly of 18th century London, he somehow maintains his purity, and matures through these experiences into adulthood.

Actor Solly McLeod joins us to discuss Tom’s universal transition from adolescence to adulthood, the wholesome and supportive chemistry between him and co-star Sophie Wilde, and the therapeutic qualities of playing Tom Jones.   

 

Jace Lacob: And this week we are joined by Tom Jones star, Solly McLeod. Welcome.

Solly McLeod: Thank you very much.

Jace Lacob: So before we dive into Tom Jones, I am curious, you’re coming off of roles in Sky’s The Rising, the Game of Thrones prequel, House of the Dragon, Outlander, and now Tom Jones. From the outside, it looks like your career has had an incredibly meteoric rise. Does it feel like overnight success to you, or is that just how it might appear?

Solly McLeod: I’m taking everything one day at a time just so it doesn’t overwhelm me in any way, but it has been an insane couple of years. Yeah, it’s been great. But I think reading it into it too much, I would probably start to freak out a little bit.

Jace Lacob: Don’t freak out.

Solly McLeod: Yeah, I know. Don’t freak out.

Jace Lacob: You were working in the service industry before enrolling at The Unseen acting school in London shortly before lockdown began in Britain. What compelled you to sign up for drama school?

Solly McLeod: I was at a point where I was working in cafes serving coffees. And it wasn’t terrible, it was just something I knew that I didn’t want to be doing, really. I knew what I wanted to be doing and that was acting. I kind of intervened in a way, that was joining up to a drama school and acting classes just to kind of better myself and keep that kind of passion for it alive. And I was really lucky that that led to being signed with my current agency. And since then we kind of…it all happened fairly quickly.

Jace Lacob: Growing up, who were the actors then, that inspired you, who made you want to act professionally?

Solly McLeod: I think I was probably eight years old when I decided that acting was something I wanted to do. It was almost as soon as I found out that it was a thing you could do. I remember my granddad showing me the Star Wars films, I was like, there’s no way this is real. This can’t be real. What’s going on? They’re flying as aliens. And I was at an age then where they could explain to me, oh, this is how films are made, they’re scenes, actors, and all that. And I was like, oh, you can do that? It’s like a job? That’s kind of cool. I’m going to crack on and do it. And since then, I didn’t have anything else I wanted to do.

Jace Lacob: You made quite a splash on House of the Dragon as Sir Joffrey Lonmouth, the so-called Knight of Kisses. What was your experience like working on a Game of Thrones series with its level of secrecy and its level of scale?

Solly McLeod: Yeah, that was another kind of step up for me, another, you know, pinch myself moment really. Because I was a big fan of the show, Game of Thrones, before. And just getting the job, I remember getting the call from my agent saying, oh yeah, well done. You’ve done it, you’ve got it. And I hung up. I was like, yeah, fantastic, really cool. I put the phone down and had like five minutes of heavy breathing just to make sure that I didn’t explode.

But it was crazy. And being on something on that scale, you know, even the seasoned actors that were on the show were coming onto these sets and just thinking and saying, oh my God, this is the biggest thing I’ve ever seen. It’s just an absolute machine. It was lovely though. It still felt like there was a sense of support and community within the cast, it kind of helped everyone just do their best job I think.

Jace Lacob: The character of Tom Jones might himself be called the Knight of Kisses. He’s a romantic lead and a drama that follows his many desires. How much of Tom is in you? Do you have any of Tom Jones’ swagger?

Solly McLeod: Yeah, I relate to him in terms of him trying to navigate his way through life as a young man and the mistakes that you make and things like that. I didn’t necessarily make the same mistakes that Tom did, but yeah, I definitely relate to his innocence. Especially looking back at a younger version of myself. And I kind of felt that I could have definitely become like that if I’d had different life experiences and stuff like that. So there was a definite relation to myself in him.

Jace Lacob: Tom Jones is sumptuous, it’s beautiful, but it is far more of an intimate period drama. It doesn’t have the scale of House of the Dragon, let’s say. Did it feel like a bit of a breather after the intensity of Westeros, or was it just as challenging?

Solly McLeod: No, it was definitely a breather. And I think that the lightness of the show and lightness of the character was the reason I was able to get through it after having worked for so many months beforehand, already with very little rest. There were days that it was ridiculously cold and wet and rainy and everyone was tired. But just the character and the support from the other actors and just the vibe and the tone of the show itself kind of was the thing that got everyone through it. Which is nice and refreshing to see that because there’s a lot of grimy things on TV and in films at the moment.

Jace Lacob: Gwyneth when I spoke to her, said that she sort of compared it to sunshine. Is it true when you got the audition for Tom Jones, you initially thought it was a project about the Welsh singer?

Solly McLeod: Yeah, it’s incredibly true. I was so confused I nearly wrote back to my agent saying, “What? Do they really want me to do an audition to play Tom Jones, the singer?” And I was thinking, I can’t do the Welsh accent. I don’t look like him. I definitely can’t sing like him. But I quickly found out that it wasn’t after reading a little bit further on.

Jace Lacob: I mean, so instead of playing the “What’s New, Pussycat?” singer, you’re playing an 18th century libertine. Before signing on to this, were you a fan of British period dramas, or is this a new arena for you?

Solly McLeod: No, it’s definitely a new arena. I had love for fantasy shows that were set, obviously in period times, but there was a different element to them than these British period dramas. But no, now after having been in one and taken part in the world, it’s something that I would happily revisit at some point, potentially.

Jace Lacob: Over the course of these four episodes, we follow Tom from his discovery in Allworthy’s bed as a foundling baby to maturity as he sort of fumbles his way to adulthood. What did you make of Tom’s narrative arc over the course of this series?

Solly McLeod: I quite enjoyed it. I mean, I didn’t have anything to compare it to because I didn’t film before I started. And I tried to read the book. I went out and got a really nice copy of the book. I thought, yeah, I’m going to take it home, start this prep, really get into it. And I read 10 pages and I was like, this is so dense and detailed. I think the first 10 pages he was describing like a tree or the garden or something. I was like, you know, there are other ways around this. I’ll figure it out.

So I didn’t have anything to compare it to, but I quite liked the simplicity of it. It’s an easier watch than most things that you see nowadays. The script seemed simple, but there was an opportunity to bring a lot more complexity to the character through my own experiences and stuff.

Jace Lacob: You talked about that you did see some of yourself in Tom, that you could have maybe made similar mistakes. Although Tom’s adventures are not necessarily the ones that we’ve had in the 21st century, there is a sort of universality to his journey—through the missteps of adolescence, he finds himself and discovers his true identity, in more ways than one.

How much of that struggle then, did you connect with on a personal level? Were you able to bring your own emotional truths to his journey?

Solly McLeod: Yeah, definitely. I was able to bring and recall on things that had happened in my past relationships with family or first loves or those kind of…what you think is the most you’re ever going to feel or that kind of thing and realizing the naivety in that. So it was interesting. It was kind of therapeutic going back and looking at why I am the way I am and how it could have been different in terms of the character.

Jace Lacob: So acting as therapy?

Solly McLeod: Yeah, acting as therapy and kind of healing. And I think that’s kind of a big reason why I enjoy it and I like doing it. It’s kind of healing for me as the actor and also for audiences as well. They get to connect with something that they might not have experienced before.

 

MIDROLL

 

Jace Lacob: Tom and Sophia are thrust together early on in episode one, and he comes to her rescue and her horse nearly throws her off.

 

CLIP

Sophia: Please get out of the way! Oh no!

Tom: Whoa, whoa.

Sophia: Oh, Mr. Jones.

Tom: Miss Western.

Sophia: Will you let me up, sir?

Tom: I should like to do so, but unfortunately I think I might’ve broken my arm.

Sophia: Oh, Tom!

 

Jace Lacob: It feels very much like a sort of ‘meet-cute’ from a romantic comedy. And these two are instantly head over heels in love with each other. What does Tom see in Sophia and how are his feelings instantly different to his feelings for Molly?

Solly McLeod: I don’t know if he sees it instantly, but I think he feels some sort of connection that she has. I think it’s because she is kind of an outcast in the same way. She doesn’t quite fit into the world and neither does Tom, he’s trying to find that. So I think he relates to her in a different way than all the other characters do. And even in the show now, you see these big, kind of eccentric, theatrical characters in the show, and Tom and Sophia seem like the only normal people really.

Jace Lacob: Your scenes with her have such a beautiful innocence to them. There’s no pretense between them. Their flirting isn’t caddish at all, but it just sort of contains the purity of young love. What did Sophie bring to these scenes?

Solly McLeod: She brought everything to these scenes, honestly. It would’ve been completely different with anyone else. I mean, you can never say but, our chemistry that we had as the characters and even off set was just a really kind of wholesome, supportive one. We were the only two cast members that were there during the shoot for the full amount of time. So we spent pretty much every day together just talking about whatever there was to talk about. We were the only ones that knew what it was like to be on set every day and that kind of thing. So again, it was the same thing like, me and Sophie navigating the world of shooting and then Tom and Sophia navigating their world as well.

Jace Lacob: Some literary critics over the years have described Tom as an unheroic hero. Do you see him as being unheroic or have our understanding of heroes and our own moralities, particularly as it relates to sex, changed over the time since Tom Jones was first published? Is he a heroic hero or is he an unheroic hero?

Solly McLeod: It kind of entirely depends on your own experiences with that kind of thing. I think Tom, or our version of Tom anyway, his character is kind of the very definition of an archetypal hero. But him being put into the real world, in real world situations, it doesn’t normally work how you would expect it to in different heroic adventures. Things don’t just fall into place. It’s definitely a more real depiction of what trying to be a hero would be like in real life. Which is interesting as well, I think, to see that he really struggles. He has that breakdown in the fourth episode. Everything he tries to do right, something else goes wrong. So his willpower was really tested in that. And that’s kind of where the heroic moment happens, he comes out the other side.

Jace Lacob: I think his struggles, his flaws sort of make him more likable and sympathetic and make you root for him to overcome all of those things that are thrown at him, of which there are many in these four episodes. He tries to do the right thing early on with Molly Seagram after he learns that she’s pregnant with what he believes to be his child. He’s horrified that Allworthy would rather pay off the Seagrams than have him do the right thing and marry her. Is Molly his first love as Tom suggests, or is he just in lust?

Solly McLeod: I think the way I approach Tom is, every interaction he has, he always tries to see the best in people and I think he’s always truthful. So I do think in a way he was being truthful when he said “you were my first love.” Because I think being in love is a very subjective thing, and it’s like you can have different relationships with different people and love them in different ways. I think he’s a truthful person, all in all.

Jace Lacob: The sex scenes in Tom Jones are really different to what we see, not only in period dramas, but just dramas, period. There’s a sort of joy and enthusiasm to these scenes between Tom and Molly or Tom and Mrs. Waters that never feels performative. Were you struck at all by the tone of these scenes, which feel so dissimilar to what we usually see on screen?

Solly McLeod: I thought it was quite nice to approach them in a lighter way, kind of more comedic way. Because there are occasions, you know, in relationships when it is just funny, and you have experiences that are funnier than others or more serious than others. But these, the tone of the show sits quite perfectly with the tone of the sex scenes and stuff.

It never felt too awkward to film because they weren’t taken as seriously, which was nice as well. It’s also the first time I’ve ever had to do any kind of on-screen intimacy stuff. So that was nice as well. And then just the relationships between the cast, just myself and Lucy and Susannah and Hannah, it made it feel a lot more natural and it was good fun.

Jace Lacob: How did those early scenes then contrast with the scenes between Tom and Lady Bellaston, which feel charged with a different sort of power dynamic? Those scenes in particular do feel somewhat different where Tom is sort of on the back foot, versus sort of being an equal participant in those early scenes.

Solly McLeod: Yeah, that was definitely done intentionally as well. It was kind of, each interaction he had with the women in the show was supposed to change something in him or push him a step further to realizing what it is that he really wants. And then when he finally is confronted with the much darker, although they’re still funny and kind of light, much darker undertones with the scenes with Lady Bellaston, that’s when he really has to make a decision, I think. So they kind of used these kinds of devices to push him on the right path.

Jace Lacob: We learn in episode four that Tom isn’t really a foundling. He’s actually the true son of Bridget Allworthy, and therefore Blifil’s half-brother. The narrative pushes Tom to become a better man before revealing that he isn’t who he believed all along.

 

CLIP

Squire Allworthy: Bridget will like it very much when you begin to call her mother. Because that bit is true. 

Bridget: I didn’t know what to do. I couldn’t tell anyone. An unmarried Lady. What would the world have said? Oh Tom, you must be so angry with me. 

Tom: Mother.

 

Jace Lacob: How does the knowledge of who Tom is transform him and how does it transform his relationship with the Allworthys?

Solly McLeod: I think the things that happened to Tom before he knows, there was a part of him that is still maybe lost. But I think in time, even if he didn’t find out who his mother was, he would’ve realized that he was always worthy of being part of the family and being part of the world and deserving of love. But that definitely was a thing that, you know, for him set in stone that he actually had been where he belonged the entire time.

Jace Lacob: Tom and Blifil have been competing for the hand of Sophia Western, though Tom has had her heart all along, even if he makes quite a few mistakes along the way. It’s clear that Blifil despises Tom out of jealousy. He tries to destroy Black George as collateral damage. What are Tom’s feelings for his adoptive brother? How does he feel about Blifil, even at this point, after everything that Blifil has done?

Solly McLeod: You know, there’s even that scene when Tom’s in prison and Blifil comes to kind of rub it in his face a little bit. And you see Tom turn around and say, oh, I’m really sorry for doing what I’ve done. And it must have been hard for you. And he’s forgiving him at that point, I don’t know, just for being there. I don’t know if he even knows why. He’s just obviously seen that his presence has upset this person that I think he actually cares about.

And you kind of see a switch in Blifil at that point as well which was, I thought, was really nice to see. And James, who plays Blifil, did it in such an amazing way. There’re some scenes where you kind of feel sorry for him, whereas in the book and in the film, I’m not sure if he really gets that humanity, you don’t really see that come through.

Jace Lacob: The masquerade ball in episode three is one of my favorite sequences in Tom Jones as Tom meets Lady Bellaston disguised as the queen of the fairies before following her in the hopes of finding Sophia.

 

CLIP

Lady Bellaston: Flirt with any more trollops and I shall tell Miss Western.

Tom: Do you know Miss Western? Madam? Madam, please, wait. I must speak with you.

 

Jace Lacob: There’s this real sense of magic and menace to these scenes. What was it like filming this sequence with Hannah Waddingham?

Solly McLeod: Yeah, that was a big night. And we did film the entire sequence in one night’s shoot.

Jace Lacob: Oh, wow.

Solly McLeod: So there was a lot of prep, a lot of…you know, it was kind of the most focused that anyone had to be. Everyone really pulled it off. And yeah, it’s a fantastic sequence. I mean it was like a weird dream being there. We were all kind of exhausted and cold and doing these choreographed moves that we drilled into ourselves. But in the end, it all paid off. And I guess that’s kind of like the whole team effort of it. And Hannah, again, just working with Hannah and everything was, every scene that we did was a treat. She was incredibly supportive and brought a lot of energy and kept it alive when other people couldn’t.

Jace Lacob: Those scenes between the two of you are just so intense and amazing. Lady Bellaston seems almost maternal at first towards Tom, and then she becomes predatory. Tom, as we said earlier, is sort of in this unusual position here, and then afterwards seems almost awkward and embarrassed by what happened. How does he read this first encounter with her?

Solly McLeod: A lot of the time when we were filming, we wanted to make sure that Tom never seemed like someone that was just having his cake and eating it, that kind of thing. It was always out of him being in an emotional state or feeling like he’d lost everything, he wanted some sort of comfort. And again, there was that maternal thing and I think that possibly echoes his lack of a mother figure when he was growing up.

Jace Lacob: I love the moment when Partridge tells Tom that Mrs. Waters is Jenny Jones, his mother, and that he’s committed incest by sleeping with her—a revelation that comes when Tom is at his lowest when he’s in prison for attacking Fitzgerald. How does this rather strange revelation, later disproven, shake the foundations of his world?

Solly McLeod: Everything that he fixes every problem that he fixes another problem comes with it or underneath. And that kind of constant beating down of his will and his willpower leading up to that point is again, just kind of showing his resilience. And that’s the moment for him that he goes, “None of this was worth it. I should have just stayed at home. I should have just stayed at home.” And you kind of find out, well there you go, the circle back, he should have just stayed at home and figured it out. But then he wouldn’t have had the same revelations as he did if he hadn’t. But that’s a breaking point for him.

Jace Lacob: I love his line, he says, “Neither by birth nor conduct am I any kind of gentleman. I am nothing more than what the world sees. A worthless bastard.” Which is, we later learn, completely untrue. But in this moment, he sees himself in the way that everyone has been viewing him for the entirety of his life.

And it is this moment, as you say, of complete vulnerability where he loses the sense of self that he’s found for himself, and he instead sees himself through the world’s eyes. And it is just a heartbreaking moment for him and for the audience where he loses everything. Even his name, his morality, everything is sort of taken from him. But at the same time, there’s nowhere to go but up, I guess. This is sort of rock bottom.

Solly McLeod: Yeah, well that’s the thing. There’re stories of people that were in the worst possible place in their lives before making something of themselves, or they’re having their success. And that’s kind of another example of it.

Jace Lacob: You contrast that scene to the scene where Tom, who now has a name and a fortune, finally proposes to Sophia, who then refuses. And Tom says,

 

CLIP

Tom: Sophia, look at me. I’m a man now, a grown man. I know what empty pleasure looks like and I thank my lucky stars that I know what true happiness looks like—it looks like you.

 

Jace Lacob: Are we finally, after all of these adventures, seeing the true Tom Jones, a mature adult, realize his errors and his faults here and accept who he is and make a pledge to become the better version or best version of himself?

Solly McLeod: Yeah. For definite. And I think him finally having that closure and that understanding of, he was right all along. He knew that he was a gentleman. He always thought that. He always tried to be, and he always was in the end. So him having that confirmation that he was doing the right thing, or had the right idea about himself, yeah it just helps him figure out, he’s like, oh this is really what I want. I’ve made some really big mistakes and it’s taken all of this to realize it is possible.

Jace Lacob: It has been a whirlwind couple of years for you, so I am wondering, what is next for you?

Solly McLeod: I don’t know. I recently finished filming The Dead Don’t Hurt. I’m really just looking forward to seeing where this next stage of my career goes and I’m just happy to have done and be doing what I am doing. So we’ll see.

Jace Lacob: Solly McLeod. Thank you so very much.

Solly McLeod: Thank you. Thank you very much.

 

Next time on MASTERPIECE, we travel back to the Oxford of the 1970s for one last murder investigation with Endeavour Morse. 

 

CLIP

Thursday: Morse. 

Morse: Sir!

Strange: Hello matey. Back in the land of the living then?

Morse: Well, seemingly not. Who found him?

Strange: Staff. Clearing up this morning after last night’s due.

 

The final season of Endeavour begins Sunday, June 18 on MASTERPIECE, on PBS.